Contacts

Contacts

Training the contact obstacles.

Dog's can be introduced to boards on the ground. Practice boards should have anti-skid material added to them. Sand mixed in paint is inexpensive, but marine deck paints apply quite nicely. The dog should have good traction on practice equipment just as it does on regulation equipment.

The seesaw should not be attempted until the dog is happily and confidently
working the dog walk and a-frame. The seesaw will probably be one of the last
obstacles completed in the training process along with the weave poles. It
pays to properly train the seesaw. An improperly trained seesaw at the very
least wastes valuable time on course and at most can be a source of great
fear for a dog. I learned one successful method of seesaw training from Susan
Garrett of SayYes! Dog Training and my adaptation of it is as follows. First,
place the ascent side of the seesaw (the side on the ground when the seesaw
is at rest) on the edge of the pause table at the pause table's highest
height where the descent side of the seesaw (the side up in the air when the
seesaw is at rest) is just a couple of inches off the ground. You might need
to lower your seesaw a bit to get it low enough to the ground. The board
should be running downhill from the pause table. Set the dog on the spot
where it should stop when it runs to the end of the seesaw, let the dog feel
the bump of the board as it hits the ground, talk to your dog the whole time,
praising and encouraging as it feels the board bump, then give lots of treats
and praise. Release the dog with "OK" and let the dog walk off the seesaw.
Don't give any more treats and praise once the dog has left the board, all
treats and praise should happen when the dog is on the board. Repeat this
several times. If the dog seems comfortable, place the dog back a bit to the
edge of the contact zone and have the dog take a step to the end of the
board, then give his treats and praise. Repeat this as many times as it takes
to see that the dog is very comfortable and happy with the board dropping the
few inches to the ground. When that occurs, back the dog up a bit to the
middle of the seesaw and repeat previous training, then finally work the dog
back bit by bit all the way the table, till the dog is running the full
length of the board and dropping it happily to the ground where you then give
treats and praise before releasing. If at any point the dog is uncomfortable
or worried, back up to the point at which the dog was fine and repeat that
step enough until you can move forward in your training without upsetting the
dog. Finally, drop the legs on the table a bit and repeat letting the dog run
the full length of the board. The point at which the board begins to go
parallel and then upward is somewhat critical, make sure to not rush. If the
dog ever begins slowing down or showing signs of hesitation, do not move on
until that passes. Back up a step in your training until the dog is very
confident before forging ahead. Keep working the pause table down to it's
lowest legs, then it is time to have the dog run the seesaw from the ground
without the pause table! Raise the seesaw to it's competition height if it
was lowered for training and your seesaw training is done! Approximate time
for training a seesaw from start to finish is one month if you work 5 minutes
every day. Never spend more than 5 minutes training an obstacle at one time
at the beginner level. Always quit with the dog in good spirits and wanting
more, don't ever continue to the point where the dog is tired and wanting to
quit. Sarah Eudy

The Five Faces of Contacts by Jim Hutchins

There are a lot of different ways to teach contact zones. Each method has its strong defenders/detractors but I don't take a position one way or the other. The methods I know of are:

--baiting the contact with some food or treat, preferably in a container so the dog doesn't get it him/herself;

--staking hoops at the bottom of the contact, and teaching the dog to go through the hoop no matter what;

--teaching the dog a "bottom" command, with two feet on the obstacle and two on the ground;

--teaching a drop or down on the contact;

--teaching a wait or stand on the contact.

I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can remember now.

The basic idea of any of these is to insert a pause in the contact zone. Then, gradually decrease the length of the pause so the dog is "checking in" with an imperceptible wait in the contact zone. As Linda Mecklenburg puts it, the dog needs to wait for permission to go to the next obstacle. In the first stages of training, permission must be clear and explicit, but as you develop your partnership, it can be more subtle and brief.

Annie and I play something we call "the whoa game". (Well, that's what *I* call it. I don't know her name for it, but it's probably obscene.) We mutated her obedience drop on recall to a drop anywhere on the contact equipment. *ANYWHERE*. So, if she is on the seesaw, or dog walk, or A-frame, and I hold my hand up in a "stop" sign (the signal we use for the DOR), that means to drop to a down right away. We have a big laugh seeing how fast she can hit the deck and there is no big penalty for being wrong, it's just for fun. I don't train it very close to trials, but when we have a few weeks off I go back to the beginnings of contact training and start over again. Going back to basics seems to really help. Pati Hatfield and Stuart Mah do basic skills one day out of each week.

Start with the a-frame and dog walk low to the ground. Place the dog on the downside contact and have him run to the ground. Back chain, gradually moving further away from the end of the board. It's easier on the dogs if they see where they've been and that there is an end before they see the entire obstacle.

On some of the new teeter designs there is no visible axis for the teeter. The support is underneath the board and there's nothing that indicates to the dog that this plank is different from any other. A common type of base is made of metal, with a piece at the top of the support that is only as wide as the plank, that the plank fits into. Fly-offs seem to be much more common on these types of bases, as there is no visual cue to the dog that he is on a teeter. To rectify this, try adding something visual to the support. For example, take a 1" X 2" board, hinge it at the top, and connect it to the base at the corners. One on each side. They resemble miniature A-Frames with the apex pointing directly at the axis of the teeter. Or a simple and quick fix is to cut of a paper cup so that it is only 2" tall and tape it to the pivot of the axis of the teeter.

For dogs that bail off the teeter, you can focus on food rewards at the end of the board to occupy their mind while they ride it down. It's not always a size problem as green large dogs will also bail off when they don't trust the moving plank yet. It's not something that can be trained in a few sessions. It takes time to get any dog reliable on the teeter. The best thing to do is back up in your training session to an earlier comfort level and move forward gradually.

Since you've already tried raising the A-frame gradually, and you know there is nothing physically wrong with the dog, you will probably have to look at unusual ways to get him past this problem. I would first address the motivation problem. Is he overweight and therefore not hungry because he's already overfed? Even the laziest couch potato will usually motivate for food (especially meat) if you let them skip a meal before training. If this dog was in my class I would have the owner withhold a meal, bring a REALLY good food reward, like steak, chicken or liver, and I would restrain the dog on leash while the owner climbs up the other side of the a-frame to call him up to the food. Are these indoor classes? If so, this dog might be perceiving the higher A-frame as being too close to the ceiling or to lights and fans on the ceiling. Seeing his owner up there might be enough to convince him that it is safe. If that fails, I'd try to find some way of figuring out if he's afraid of heights. Walking him across a bridge or taking him for a ride in a glass walled elevator might work. If he's afraid of heights, you would try to expose him frequently to heights to get over the fear, then re-try the A-frame. One other thought, have you raised the a-frame gradually enough? You might try working at his maximum height till he's not just comfortable but actually enjoying that height before raising it just one link. Sherry Wargo

After getting close up and personal experience competing against those tremendous European Mini dogs, I came home and retrained Heather's A-Frame contact. She had been stopping/hesitating at the top of the A-Frame, then coming down and stopping at the bottom. This took up entirely too much time! So, I went all the way back to the beginning, to a flat A-Frame and started again. I put a jump at the apex and taught her to run across the flat A-Frame at full speed, jumping the top. I used her favorite ball to
help her drive off the down side. Then I brought the A-frame up about 4" at a time until we reached 3'. I kept the small jump at the top to discourage her from perching up there. I kept the A-Frame at 3' for a couple weeks, working on it every day. She retained the drive up and over the top, and running down the other side. She was reliably hitting the contact on her way off. I again increased the height a little at a time,
spending a few days at each new height. This speeded up her A-Frame performance considerably, but has caused a whole new set of handling challenges!

I videotaped each training session to observe her performance, and one thing I did notice was that when she approached the A-Frame at speed and came over the top at speed so that she landed between the first and second slat, her natural stride carried her well into the contact. If she comes across the top and lands between the apex and the first slat, then she may miss her contact unless I manage her performance some. So, I know that if I am going to cross behind the A-Frame, MY handling has to differ to ensure she gets her contact.

We just finished our 14th AKC trial since we returned from the World Championships and retrained, and we have not missed an A-Frame contact yet (knock on wood). Our A-Frame speed has increased by about 3 seconds (used to have a 5 second A-Frame, now its about 2 seconds) This particular method I only use with smaller dogs. I still teach a stop at the bottom for the bigger ones. I also teach a stop for the smaller ones after their A-Frame performance is solid. I believe it is a useful skill to be able to stop a small dog at the bottom if necessary. After all, how many times do we see a flip from the A-Frame into a tunnel? Kathie Leggett

I prefer the two feet on the ground method, and teaching the dog to really drive over the obstacle and down to the contact as quickly as possible, and then stop reliably. In competition then I just release the dog while the they're still speeding down that last few inches and before they noticeably slow or stop, but I know I can stop them if needed. My very first dog was taught by pausing him near the top, to slow him down as he started to
descend, and I had really bad problems with him jumping off later. Seems that once they have stopped or noticeably slowed, any additional movement is a good excuse to leap off, whereas if the dog has a goal in mind (achieving a specific position at the bottom of the ramp) they're less likely to jump off. And even if they don't jump off with the 'pause at the top' method, it's been my observation that they're more likely to stay up there and sight-see, or to just waste a lot of time by coming down so slowly. Diana Antlitz

After hearing about how the Europeans were running their contacts from Nancy
Gyes and Kathie, I became very interested. And, after a disastrous outing at Pamona, I decided to retrain all of Pinto's down contacts. It took half of October, and all of November, working five to seven days a week, until he started to become reliable. We still have some proofing to do, and he's still developing speed, but he's only missed one down contact in his last eight trials.

He also will do two on and two off, which we use mainly for Gambles, but can be used on course as well, ie the flip from the A-Frame into a tunnel that Kathie mentioned.

Re-training consisted of teaching him to run over a foot target. The target was made of pegboard, cut to the width of the contact obstacle, and it is about nine inches wide. It is covered it with yellow vet wrap. The vet wrap gives the target purchase, and the yellow color makes it appear very much like it is part of a down contact zone.

First, Pinto was clicker trained to run fast to, and then run over the foot target, touching it with one of his forepaws, without stopping. It took two weeks before he'd nail the target where ever it was place on the ground. It was not used in conjunction with an obstacle at this time.

Next, the A-Frame was lowered to about three feet, and the target was placed on the ground, in front of the down contact, about two inches away. Numerous repetitions later, he was touching the foot target 100% of the time. The A-Frame was then raised about four inches at a time until it was noticed, from the video tape, that he was beginning to launch from the A-Frame to the foot target.

To counter this behavior, a 12 gauge, bare copper wire was fashioned into a hoop, and stuck into the ground near the forward end of the foot target. Bare copper wire proved to be difficult for him to detect, and did no harm when he ran into it. Numerous repetitions later, he was running up and down the A-Frame without stopping, and exiting under the copper hoop. Then, sometimes I'd position the copper hoop, and sometimes I wouldn't. By randomizing it's use, Pinto could not predict it's absence or presence. He opted to run the obstacle as if it was always there, ie, "no launching."

The foot target was gradually phased out by simply moving it closer to, and then underneath the down contact side of the A-Frame. A gradual disappearing act.

The same method was also used for the Dog Walk down contact, except it was
not first lowered, and then raised.

So, I have not tried this procedure with any other dog. I do not know if it would work or not. I suspect that for larger, faster dogs many other problems may arise. Peter Vollmer

These are my observations & impressions after 9 years of agility competition (started with two dogs, now up to 4 in three sizes) and 5 years of instructing agility -- with my oldest dog, who is 24" tall, on his eight or so method of training on the bottom contacts.

= Most dogs physically handle the A-frame, dog walk & tetter descent differently, with most dogs slowing for the teeter exit and many dogs, especially "top-heavy" builds and straight-shoulder dogs, having a tricky time stopping on the bottom of a full-height A-frame (particularly USDAA 6'3" high one).
= Dogs that have trouble controlling their descent on the A-frame are MUCH more likely to jump off the A-frame before the contact -- even little and toy dogs can readily bust those 42" contacts. Their head comes up as they try to keep their balance and bingo they bail off the A-frame (earlier than we want).
= The single most effective indicator as to whether the dog is controlling their descent on the A-frame is whether the dog shifts its weight back to its hindquarters (think Quarter horse cutting cattle and "sitting back" on its haunches to stop/turn) after it comes over the apex.

So it seems to me that all our "bottom" behaviors
        ~ touch-targets to teach a stop,
        ~ food-targets,
        ~ treats from handler,
        ~ treats on slats,
        ~ full-stop with two feet on,
        ~ "lie down" as the dog comes down
        ~ run through the hoop
most of which help make the expected behavior clearer to the dog (and easier for the dog to reproduce), are working to have the dog shift their weight back and control their descent so the dog travels into the "yellow" on a reliable basis.

And I have found that easiest way to help a dog learn to control their descent -- and to do it briskly -- is to initially train on a LOWERED A-frame and to do LOTS of repetitions to build good bottom "habits". One dog we even had sit (for a reward) on the bottom contact of a 4' A-frame to help the dog learn how to sit back on the way down (the touch target wasn't getting the idea across when re-training this dog). And don't forget to keep the dog's toenails short (to avoid foot discomfort).

So that's my impressions from watching my dogs, my friends' dogs, my students' dogs and dogs at the AKC & NADAC national competitions (and a little World Cup video) work the A-frame. Happy training -- Lynnda Lenzen

My plan is a very long term one, it took me 5 months to teach my current youngster the
contact equipment. The finished "product" so to speak is just beginning to be seen and he is now 3 years of age. It helps that I have my own equipment and also that I
plan the training at my school! There are many handlers today that want a "quick fix", something that works now and worry about the rest later. I train hard for Agility, I also compete most weekends in the summer, there is no way that I want to take a dog in the ring with dodgy contacts and so I work VERY hard to make sure that I don't have to!

My "A" Frame command is the cue for the following chain: - Find the "A" Frame;

Straighten yourself up so that you can do the equipment safely, from a position that will give you enough of a run at it to get up it <G>;

Go as fast as possible to the down contact area; Wait there until you are released.

As with most behaviour chains, I begin with the end, in this case the dog remaining on the contact zone until released. We start by very gently placing the dog in the preferred position on the contact area. The position will vary according to the size of dog and the handler's preference; we then build the length of time in the same way that you would build a stay. When the dog is reliable at 3 mins or so, we then move the A Frame to another part of the arena and start again. We also vary the position of the handler and build toward the handler being able to run past, throw a ball past, run round the
A frame and anything else that we can think of to proof the contact. At this stage we introduce the "up" or whatever the handler wants to use as a cue, as I have found that most handlers like to have something to say! It also prevents them from using a separate "wait" or "stay" command, which sometimes slips out when they begin to
panic. The reason that I don't like any additional cues is that most handlers when they get in the ring lose confidence in their training and either begin to shout or simply start to sound threatening. Either way it is not something that I am a fan of. The related point is that to stop at the bottom of a piece of equipment that is at such a steep angle, the dog must begin to control his descent long before most people start nagging about
"waits".

When I am sure that the dog fully understands that he must wait on the contact until he is released, no matter where the handler is or what he/she is doing, we begin little by little to send the dog to the contact area.

I have found it to be very useful at this stage to let the DOGS watch experienced dogs in action. Some dogs learn an amazing amount by observation (make sure that the
dogs that they are watching are good!).

When the dogs are confidently doing the "A" Frame, we again introduce the handler variables and increase the length of time that they remain in place before the release.

The next part is to teach the dog how to straighten himself and this is done gradually, "fanning" the start position out until the dogs learn how to get on from any angle. We also increase the distance that the dogs start from, until they have a good "send" to the equipment. At all times we try to vary the handler position as many dogs are very good at picking up signals that we are unaware of.

The "acid" test of whether or not a dog knows his job, is to have the handler sit on a chair some 15 feet away from the A Frame, put their hands in their pockets and then give their A Frame cue. If the dog were successful, we would begin to introduce the dog to this equipment in course work.

Here in the UK a favourite trick is for contact kit to be in the middle of two tunnels, through a gap between two jumps etc, so we also spend some time refining the dog's obstacle discrimination. The total time span depends on the dog, but I would not push it to less than 4 months with any dog, if you are looking for a lifetime reliable contact,
both in and out of the ring. I would rather waste time laying the foundations well, than ever have to do remedial training.

In a dog's first year of competition, letting him run all of the contacts is a good way
of ensuring a very "ring wise" dog. So my dogs stop all through their first year, after that I tend to be fairly random about it, if we knock a pole, then I will again stop them (once we have faults we are out of the running in most cases), but otherwise I'll send them on when I see that first paw make contact. So the second year they may run 1 in 3, or 2 in 3, or all of them, but I don't stick to a pattern. I also do the same in training.

The finished product is a dog that appears to "run" the contacts. BUT if the dog begins to anticipate you have a solid foundation of training to fall back on. Jo Sermon BTW at the weekend my young dog, Jester, was timed, contact to contact at 1.9 secs. on the dog-walk, he does it MUCH faster than I can run it. Jo Sermon

I have encountered this with enthusiastic large dogs as well as the wee ones - the uncontrolled descent over the A-frame. Leave the A-frame at the position in which the dog does well for a time longer. Raise it in very small increments, slowly. It's much better for the dog if they find their own method of getting up and over, rather than having it controlled by the handler. It's well worth the wait to allow the dog to do this on their own. If raised too quickly dogs can begin to raise their heads as they go up which causes them to have to "climb" to get over the top. Not at all helpful to the small dogs if this happens. It can also cause the uncontrolled descent that you are describing - as they speed their way up the plank they arrive at the top only to find they must now get back down with all that momentum they created getting up.

Sometimes it helps to have something for the dog to focus on at the bottom. You can place a target with a goodie, and allow the dog to see you doing this. (Back chaining this can help) If the dog doesn't control it's descent and misses it's mark, grab the goodie. "Oh, too bad you didn't get this." The dog will often times rethink what's happening. When young, it's hard to think, much less think quickly. So you'll want to gauge what your dog can handle at this point.

Having Great Danes, I am familiar with the giants problems in agility. Ladder work is very important to teach them where their feet are and they should master the ladder before moving on to the dog walk.

When teaching the dog walk, keep it LOW until it is well mastered. Then slowly raise it a foot or so at a time. The giants do single track when going at a trot, but double track at a walk so a 12" wide dog walk is not wide enough for them.

A-frames are no problem, but again keep it low. I taught my first Dane with the A-frame at full height and there are three of us that still have back problems from lifting and pushing a 150 pound Dane up and over <VBG>. Just make sure the A-frame is well constructed. I have seen Danes flatten them.

Save the teeter till after the dog walk is done. Again, if possible, have it at a low setting and slowly raise it.

Mastiffs do drool and more so when stressed so have the owner bring a slobber towel. The giants also do not have the stamina for an hour long class so teach the new stuff early in the class and let them do the things they know the last half of the class. Always end on a positive obstacle so they have fun and want to come back next week! Bonnie Drabek

How long have you been trailing without stopping the dog in training for any length of time? How many trials? I have been competing most weekends for 8 years with a dog that was taught to stop and wait in training and run them at a show.

In 8 years he has missed perhaps 10 to 15 contacts - most of those ups! This dog BTW competes at the senior level here, so he's no slouch. My young dog is just beginning to run all the contacts at shows and he's yet to miss one - and he is now a Senior dog too. A dog learning to be "ring-wise" depends entirely on how you handle his first experience of a show. ANY method can go flying out of the window if you push too hard too soon.

Before you dispense with stopping your dogs in training I'd consider very carefully. Its better NOT to establish bad habits then it is to develop a problem that needs correction.

Most dogs go faster at a show than they do in training, what may be good enough in training to hit those contacts very probably won't be in the ring. The faster a dog goes, the longer his stride and if you are relying on a dogs habitual stride pattern to hit the contacts, a few shows down the line you may well be disappointed.

If your dog is also used to being released as his feet touch the ground, the faster he goes the more likely he'll be to anticipate. If he is used to being stopped, your chances are appreciably higher.

The only dogs that run the contacts in training with me are an 11 year-old dog who really WON'T go any faster and a mini that never gets out of a canter. The other minis are perfectly capable of missing contacts as they gallop across the equipment and the bigger dogs most defiantly are too! Regards, Jo Sermon and Beardies from Surrey in the UK.

I received many private responses to my question about fast, accurate contacts. Without going into detail of exactly how to train for it, the summary of responses is:
11 "For" and 5 "Against" teaching a stop at the bottom of the contact. There were many thoughtful replies from very experienced handlers. My interpretation is that what you choose to do depends on the relative speed of you and your dog and the amount of control you are willing to sacrifice in order to gain speed.

An interesting point was made by several about using the stop at the bottom as an intermediate step for teaching the running contacts, either by use of hoops or a "zero second" wait. This does give you more options for remedial training if the dog starts missing contacts.

Another point was to teach the dog to wait with all 4 paws off, by moving the target further away from the bottom. I actually did this with a young dog and it seemed to be the best of both worlds, with no yucky hesitation on the way down, but still allowing control. Unfortunately I was never able to test this in the ring before his untimely death.

I am going to stick with "plan A" and teach my beginner dog to stop. At least for now. Susan McClair

Well, first they have to teach the dog to touch the target (we use plexi-glass squares that reduce in size over the weeks) on the floor. We check this in class and offer suggestions to problems the first couple weeks as we teach other things like tunnels, jump lanes, tire, table and weaves. Then they are supposed to move to the stairs-one
step down to touch, at home. When we start in class, we do the same - one step down the low a-frame to the ground and target. As they do well, they back chain up their stairs at home and we do the same in class. If the dog doesn't understand the touch or isn't staying on the a-frame, we keep them at the bottom-one step- point until they do. So
some dogs (usually those who are practicing at home) may be doing the whole a-frame while some are still at the bottom trying to do the target right. Usually if they get too far behind, the next week they will be suddenly better as the student puts effort into the homework! I will try to help them if they don't understand how to teach it, and explain
and show them in class. We work one on one for contact training, so each person does get help, but we don't say oh well and let them do the whole thing if they can't target. We've been using this for a couple years now, and all the dogs get there eventually. Since each group of dogs is different, it may be different weeks for each class to be doing the whole frame, I pace it by the dogs. Barb DeMascio

We got a Staffordshire Bull Terrier last year. The way that she is built, I did not feel that it was a good idea (long term) to ask her to bring 30 lbs. to a slamming stop on all of the contacts with those short little legs. She is also a dog that once you get forward propulsion going, you want to keep it up. She doesn't go from 0 to 30 in .3 seconds the way other breeds can. So I decided that I wanted to teach her a "running contact".

I did, however, start with quite a bit of two-feet-on/two-feet-off work. I did this just on the end of the planks with a target (touch the target, get a cookie). I wanted her to learn that the end of the board was a great place to be and that lots of rewards came there. I also wanted to have a foundation to revert to if the final training failed! She quickly learned to jump up about three feet on the ramp and run into the proper position and she will still do this behavior on command.

Then I started training the run -- we did the dog walk first as it's much easier for the dog to actually *run* when he has 36' to traverse rather than a short A-frame. I kept the target in the same spot and started back-chaining. As soon as her nose hit the target, I encouraged her to continue running rather than staying in the two-feet-on/two-feet-off position. I clicked when she hit the target but didn't reward until we'd run past. She was soon running over the dog walk confidently and dropping her head in the proximity
of the target and continuing on. At a certain point, she was going so fast that I didn't feel it was productive to actually ask her to keep touching the target on the ground (and, that's where a foot target might actually work better) -- especially after she did a couple somersaults in her attempts to do so! I did still ask her to duck her head as she passed it and that's what we clicked.

At that point, I started introducing racing games and even more motivation to
go as fast as possible. I also started the same training process on the A-frame. I put hoops on the A-frame although I hadn't done that with the dogwalk.

She had her first event last month and did beautiful, fast running contacts even in the stress of her first trial situation. Will they hold up...? I think so, as long as we keep reinforcing in training.

The problem that I'm facing now is how to get her A-frame up to 6'3" for USDAA and maintain the accuracy. It appears that she was learning all this time is a certain striding. I raised the A-frame a bit and all of a sudden, what had been a perfect contact at 5'6" is now marginal at a higher height. And, of course, will get more marginal as we keep going up. So, I'm probably going to play with a foot target and see if that helps. But, if you only are concerned with a single height A-frame, what I did worked very well. Monica Percival

I'm certainly not an expert but I have a suggestion I heard about the teeter. My instructor learned this at Power Paws camp. To speed up slow dogs on teeter. First of all you need two teeters and one must be adjustable. First use just the adjustable one on the lowest or next to lowest level. Do this low teeter a bunch of times in a row over and over. Getting faster each time, since it's low it's easier and less scary and they will soon be
getting pretty fast. Now of course you want them to still work it not just run to the end.

Now you bring out the 2nd teeter and place it a little ways straight in front of the first teeter and at full height. Now run the first short teeter and straight to the 2nd full size teeter. And do this a few times. Now supposedly this method somehow works by muscle memory, which does make sense to me. I think it will most likely work best on just a slow moving dog not a dog that has a real teeter phobia but who know maybe it
would work on them too. I guess the idea is by doing the little teeter over and over and over really fast. The dogs muscles get used to that speed and then when you stick the bigger teeter in front you should get the same speed. It's worth a try. Lynn Bowen

Difficult to give a good advice from the other end of the ocean. The more I follow this list, the more I think agility in the US isn't exactly the same thing as agility in Switzerland. *LOL*.

Well, the problems with A-frame sure isn't breed specific. The Dals I know have all kind of critical points in a course but never the A-frame. Shiva does the A-frame in training all the time perfectly....sometimes without even be asked for it.

My first thought is that it could have something to do with his age or with his weight, maybe a combination of both. If he enters the A-frame and feels a pain in his shoulder, he could bounce back. And if he is asked again to go for the A-frame he would go up slowly to prevent this pain again.

Second thought: I don't know how the A-frame looks that you use in training. Maybe it's just the colour or the surface that is different from the A-frame your Dal sees in a course. We are trying to show as many different contact obstacles as possible to our dogs by visiting other training grounds (and the clubs owning these training grounds come to visit us).

Third thought: Confidence, Pressure? I've very often seen that problems with a specific obstacle, which ever it is, had a lot to do with missing confidence (will he fail again this time?) or pressure applied (but this time he HAS to do it properly). We handlers (me included) often have difficulties dealing with such a thing (Pardon?...I HAVE confidence; I DON'T apply pressure). When Shiva had problems with the long jump about a year ago, I didn't want to believe that it just was due to my missing confidence and the pressure put on her (see the comments above). Then a very experience handler came to me and asked if she could lead Shiva through some courses. Well...there were some misunderstandings, but Shiva ALWAYS cleared that darned long jump forward and backwards as if it would be their most favorite thing to do. Manuela Buerge, Switzerland

For contacts we start with the stop and make the bottom of the contact the BEST place to be, in whatever position the handler favours. All the dogs enjoy this section of their training as we go a long way out of our way to make sure that they do, many if given the
option will happily go and "assume the position" in the hopes of the game that will follow. The contacts are taught in isolation until the whole performance is complete. Contacts are introduced to course work MUCH later in the game, when the performance is reliable, even then there will be a pause box after each one to prevent handlers rushing on.

I don't agree that too much "control" training can kill a dog's enthusiasm, you simply need to balance the mental maturity of the dog, with the task at hand. Don't ask a puppy to do a ten minute down stay in the face of distractions, ask him for a 1/2 minute stay in peace and quiet. All dogs enjoy pelting around, it takes a little more skill to teach them to enjoy static work. Done in the right way, with reward based methods, it need never kill their enthusiasm.

Our last class of young dogs spent their first 10 weeks of lessons practicing (amongst other things <G>!!) stays at the end of the contacts. That's it, that's all. They didn't do the full piece of equipment until much later in the game. They did stay's with balls being thrown past, handlers running past, handlers jumping about and waving their arms
about and then that release!!! "Ready............GO". We really emphasize that verbal release. For dogs with low motivation, its a really good way of getting them punching out and for the fast twitchy dogs it emphasizes the job requirements. When these dogs were introduced to the full pieces of equipment they ALL slowed by themselves into that stop. Priceless. A very timid dog was delighted the first time she did the complete dog walk, you could see the comprehension in her face and she happily went straight to the end and waited for her game. Confident because she fully understood what was expected of her, happy as she knew a game was in the offing if she just managed to wait there for long enough. Now many of the handlers want to go racing on anxious for the finished product, some dogs will cope, for some it will fall apart. That's the name of the game and it is an individual decision. As an instructor I can only advise (and then say "I told you so" later on!!) :-) Jo Sermon

One thing which seemed to help me (but it hasn't been a complete cure), was to try to simulate the speed and drive I get at a trial at home. I did this by putting a target with really good treats on it after the next obstacle after the the A-frame/dog walk. This got my dog really wanting to get off the contact and on to the next jump, giving me speed similar to what I see in the trial. I then made sure that she did the contact correctly (full stop, 2-on 2-off, in my case) before I released her to take the next obstacle and get the treat. You may need to have someone else guard the target to make sure the dog doesn't blow you off and get the treats anyway. Also, gambler's classes are a good place to take the opportunity to correct missed contacts in the ring without completely wasting your entry fee. And of course more show-n-go's should be coming up in the winter and spring. Jo Renn

Given all the excellent current discussion on various contact issues, I thought I'd put in a general 2 cents about deciding on a contact method and my experience. There are a few things I like to take into consideration when making a decision for my own dogs as well as when advising students about such a decision --

o What are your goals in this sport?

Do you want to be a member of the World Team or win a national event? Do you just want to go out and have a good time and won't be upset about Q'ing or not? Is it important to you to have a high percentage of Q's but you don't care about placing in a class?

If you want to go out and beat a lot of dogs then I think you have to consider a method that focuses on lots of speed. At the top of the sport, we are seeing faster and faster contacts.

If a high degree of consistency is very important to you then a stop and release method (two feet on/two feet off or four feet on) may be more preferable. Many dogs can pause on the contact obstacles and still meet course times.

o What flavors of the sport will you be competing in?

Are you only going to do NADAC, AKC, or USDAA performance? If so, it's easier to train running contacts on a 5'6" Aframe than a 6'3" (at least in my experience).

o What's your dog's build and level of athleticism, etc.?

Is your dog long strided? Is he very tall or very heavy? Is he short and squat? Does he like bouncing versus striding?

I think teaching running contacts is very difficult with a long strided dog. However, teaching a stop and release method to a Great Dane or Bull Mastiff can be impractical as there is just too much gravity to fight (and, of course, it might not be a great idea from a physical standpoint... we just don't know). The latter was even an issue for my Staffy Bull. If she took the Aframe as fast as I wanted her to go, her short squat body wasn't capable of rocking back enough to stop. I also decided I didn't want 32 lbs of muscle (14 1/2" tall body) slamming into the ground. On the other hand, my BC can descend the Aframe quickly and stop so lightly on the ground that I don't think there is any undue stress on the shoulders. He comes down very low and with all of his weight back (42 lbs on a 21 1/2" body).

If your dog isn't naturally very quick and will have trouble making course time, then this will have to factor into your decision.

Many dogs that tend to be "bouncy" or "springy" for lack of a better word to describe it, will vault off the end of the walk if you try to teach them a running contact.

o What is your left of athleticism and your handling style?

Is the dog going to be 20' out ahead of you all of the time? This can create a big mess if you have taught running contacts and the dog is off the obstacle and you're not in a position to direct it to where it needs to go next. Likewise, if the dog has been taught to be reliant on your physical and verbal presence to be guided down the contact, then you're also in trouble because he'll sit on that Aframe waiting for you to catch up and then you have to coax him down. This is where I have personally found the stop and wait for release useful -- ideally, the dog is waiting in his stop position for me to release him when I get there. Cuts down on performance time.

In terms of methods, many of the dogs that appear to be running through contacts these days have actually been taught to stop and wait for release, but the stop has been faded to be nearly impercetible. The handler is releasing the dog as soon as it is in the contact rather than waiting for the dog to be fully in its stopping position. So there are many variations on methods out there.

Certainly four feet on is a variation of two feet on/two feet off that people consider because they're worried about physical stress. This was the second method I taught my BC, Lazer. I achieved 100% accuracy and had no missed contacts for several years, however, time was an issue. I wanted to be more competitive and he is faster doing a two feet on/two feet off performance that he was four on. When you're doing four feet on, the dog has to start slowing down and rocking back earlier in his performance of the obstacle to achieve the stop. I also think that the dog has to slow down more to stop on
the obstacle. I shaved almost 2 seconds off Aframe performance with this change.

One method I've used with a couple of people with very large dogs who are generally next to the dogs while they perform the obstacles is to teach the dog to target on the hand for the reward. The handler can place the hand in an appropriate position to get the dog to take a stride into the contact, then right as the dog gets there, the handler moves the hand out away from the obstacle so no physical contact is made.

Anyway, contacts give all of us lots to think about! Monica Percival

Re: up contact. I had a similar problem with my Aussie but it was one that I had inadvertently taught him! When we were starting out, Panda was taught the dog walk from the very base of the ramp...he interpreted the correct obstacle performance to be "run to the base of ramp and then get on". His stride length is such that this carried him right over the contact! I tried scattering jump poles before the ramp base to make him shorten stride. It worked, but I didn't like using something that wouldn't be there on the course.

What I ended up doing was training a "reverse bottom"...IOW, front feet on, rear feet off. So long as I reinforce it from time to time in training and I remember to tell him "Feet!" before the dog walk, he hits it almost all the time now :-). I have to admit to sometimes feeling silly when I praise him on course with a "Good Feet!", but hey, if it works! :-) Sally Josselyn.